Dorrin K Mace, Horologost

Dorrin K Mace, Horologost
The Clock Man in a pensive moment

Wednesday, March 28, 2012

Dating your Regula Cuckoo Clock Movement

Many times customers will want to know how I can tell if a movement in a clock has been replaced.  Aside from mismatched holes and differences in arbors, one can tell the age of the movement and case and if they do not agree it is a married piece (this used to be called a bastard piece, I believe it must might have offended some so the name was changed to a married piece)  On a cuckoo clock that has a Regula movement dating the movement is usually easy.  Once the date is established you can determine if the case style matches the date of the movement manufacture.  Once these criteria are established, it can be determined if the clock is genuine or married.

Manufacturing Codes For “Regula” cuckoo clock movements
The code is a single alphabetical letter stamped on the back movement plate. A=1970 or 1990; B=1971 or 1991, etc. The cycle repeats every 20 years. There is NO G, I, O, Q, Y or Z


Production Code                      Production year(s)
A                                             1970/1990/2010/2030
B                                             1971/1991/2011/2031
C                                             1972/1992/2012/2032
D                                             1973/1993/2013/2033
E                                              1974/1994/2014/2034
F                                              1975/1995/2015/2035
H                                              1976/1996/2016/2036
J                                               1977/1997/2017/2037
K                                              1978/1998/2018/2038
L                                               1979/1999/2019/2039
M                                              1980/2000/2020/2040
N                                              1981/2001/2021/2041
P                                               1982/2002/2022/2042
R                                               1983/2003/2023/2043
S                                                1984/2004/2024/2044
T                                                1985/2005/2025/2045
U                                               1986/2006/2026/2046
V                                               1987/2007/2027/2047
W                                              1988/2008/2028/2048
X                                               1989/2009/2029/2049

 EXPLANATION:
Near the center of each movement, there is a LETTER stamped into the movement.  This LETTER indicates the production year.  The letter repeats every 20 years

Example: Movements produced in 1990 will have the same letter "A" as movements produced in 1970, 2010, and 2030.


77 comments:

  1. When was the first Regula cuckoo clock made?

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    1. Regula makes the movements only and is a TradeMark name.
      "Regula" is the TM of J. Burger Söhne in Schonach, a casting-company, which made a great namber of Cuckoo-movements for the BF-cuckoos in 19.th century. Ca. 1880 Burger made also stamped movements.

      The TM "Regula" was first in use after WW2, but was not registered for the first several years. Burger Söhne finally registered this TM in 1966.

      Burger Söhne was later split into two different companies. One of these is named "SBS-Feintechnik" and is still a manufacturer of clock movements. One of the very last movement makers in Germany.

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  2. Good Morning,
    I have a Regula cuckoo clock left to me by my mother.
    The back plate say 20 then G.M. I think she got it in the early 60's. Any help would be appriciated.
    Thanks
    Roger

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    1. 20 is the model number signifying it is a one day or 30 hour movement. GM or GM Amgen simply means patent pending or patent applied for. If you can provide a photo of your clock we can usually determine the approximate date of manufacture from the characteristics such as carving style and finish color. As the Regula name was not trade marked until 1966 we can assume your clock is made between 1946 and 1966. I hope this helps.

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    2. I also got from my mom one of the same. it says 20. GM. 1705294. Any idea what its worth?

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  3. Hello, I have a Regula movement cuckoo clock, looking at the movement at the top left is stamped "Synt-Oil" under that is Clock 859. Down a little lower on both sides are the letters "GM". Under the "GM" to the left are the numbers "164900 1674539", under the "GM" on the right side are the numbers "1704075 1705294" to the center left, middle of the movement are "34F". At the bottom of the movement to the left is "Made in Germany" anf to the right bottom "No Jewels" There are no markings on the clock itself, the manual has a German Gothic style H at the top and is written in several languages. The numbers on the box are 845-15, and printed by hand "8 Day Squirrel" Any idea what the clock is worth or who made it?? Thanks, Steve

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    1. Greetings Steve~ I will need a photo to determine manufacturer and value

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  4. I have a Regula cuckoo clock left to me by my mother. It is 29 '' tall not counting weights, 22 '' wide it has 3 birds and 2 baby birds in nest, has 12 leaves. on both sides are the letters "GM". Under the "GM" to the left are the numbers "164900 1674539", under the "GM" on the right side are the numbers "1704075 1705294" to the center left, middle of the movement are 34 /1/79. At the bottom of the movement to the left is "Made in Germany. Any idea what the clock is worth or who made it? Thanks Mac.

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    1. Greetings Mac~ I will need a photo to determine value and manufacturer

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  5. what happened to the clock man ???

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    1. The clock man is alive and well. I am working 80-90 hours a week to keep up with my repairs. Is there anything I can help you with specifically?

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    2. I have a Regula cuckoo clock left to me by my mother. It is 29 '' tall not counting weights, 22 '' wide it has 3 birds and 2 baby birds in nest, has 12 leaves. on both sides are the letters "GM". Under the "GM" to the left are the numbers "164900 1674539", under the "GM" on the right side are the numbers "1704075 1705294" to the center left, middle of the movement are 34 /1/79. At the bottom of the movement to the left is "Made in Germany. Any idea what the clock is worth or who made it? Can you tell me how to go about attaching a photo? Thanks Mac

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  6. Hi clockman :) the regula movement in my august schwer cucko clock has GM: 1884288 1892176 on the back however beneath it does not have any letter printed indicating the year instead it has 25-77 could you please help me on what that means and possibly when it was made? thanks

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  7. What can you ell me about this clock. I just acquired it and I need new hooks for the 3 weights. Just wondering about it's history. I'd like to know more about it.

    Picture https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zdubecad9ubkunk/hhYx8WeE4c

    Any ideas where I can get parts?

    Some of the marking on the movement.
    1649000
    1674539

    1704075
    1705294

    GM

    Regula

    A Schneider
    Söhne

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  8. Hi,
    I have a Regula Cuckoo Clock with the following numbers:
    N71-72048PL40
    Oil clock 859

    3 weights @ 1750 each

    At first all was well then it started skipping the 15 & 45 minute cuckoo then the 30 minute stopped so now it only does the hour. Also it used to cuckoo first then play music now they both happen at the same time. HELP!

    Gus

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    1. Typically a cuckoo does not pay on the 1/4 hour and the 3/4 hour. As for running slow and skipping, your movement needs cleaned, oiled, and a full service.

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  9. Something continues to puzzle me: some Regulas were made by Bachmaier und Klemmer. How do these fit into the letter-dating scheme? they seem to be identified as "34/1/79" (it is a 34 movement) and bears the same patent numbers as those on Nick Shultz, just above,. making it post-1955. I notice his is labelled "A. Schneider Sohne"; yet another manufacturer?

    How to date these non-standard movements?


    Many thanks,

    --Terry
    Dr. T. Rowe
    Clockmaker, Northern Canada.

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    1. Greetings Dr. Rowe~

      Thank you for contacting me. Regula is not a maker per se but a trademark of Jos. Burger KG, Schonach, the major German cuckoo clock movement producer.
      As a manufacturer, Burger KG does a lot of private label or "badge engineering" work. Much like Howard Miller puts their name on clocks, but the movement is manufactured by another concern.
      A Schneider Sohne (now referred to a Anton Schneider) is actually considered the oldest cuckoo clock manufacturer having started in 1848. Schneider now uses the movements marked Regula in their clocks as well and only really makes the case components. Dating non standard movements is not as hard as one might think, you need to observe the manufacturing processes that were utilized, comparing these to known base lines for dates. Additionally one needs to decipher the alpha/numeric codes stamped on the movement. Care must be taken to observe the movement in the case; Movements are replaced and switched out quite often.
      Unless we are talking a museum quality or exceptionally rare piece, the changing of a modern movement does little to the value of the clock. I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any additional information.

      Rev. Dr. Dorrin K. Mace
      Pine Knoll Clock Shop
      Mercer, PA

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  10. Congratulations on your brilliant lecture that taught us .
    And sorry some translation errors because it was translated by google translator from Portuguese to English.
    I am Brazilian and I am starting a collection of these wonderful cuckoo clocks . Currently I have 20 antique clocks . I am an enthusiast in the world of cuckoo clocks and researching a lot about them on the internet .
    I have a 24 regulates clock engraved with the name REGULATE identical to this photo : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regula-type-24-fully-reconditioned-8-day-cuckoo-clock-movement-/271296356770?nma=true&si=6bQawDVXNOwAUy50%252FzbvmGF1uLY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
    24 is recorded in the center and on the right GM Beneath the numbers 1704075 1705294 1649000 1674539 .
    The Lord would provide the date the year of manufacture and the value of this watch .
    In recent research on the internet got information that this watch was manufactured in 1950 by no later than close of 1960. But from what the Lord told us , this brand has been registered and stamped Regulation from 1966 . So what would be the most likely date of manufacture of this watch .
    Thank you.
    Hugs .

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  11. We understand that Regula movements are supplied to black forest industries only and not to other countries even if reasonable quantity of Regula movements are ordered. Under the circumstances which is the reliable wholesale suppliers of Regula movements at reasonable price to whom we can place confirm orders? Kindly reply by e-mail info@othocrystal.cpm and oblige.
    Thanks.

    Jal Rustomji Katpitia.

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  12. Hi
    I have just purchased a Regula cuckoo clock and I'm trying to find out a bit about it.
    I understand that it is a Black Forest clock, it has a large owl on the top, a cuckoo on the pendulum and two cuckoos (one either side of the clock) which move when the clock strikes half past and on the hour. These two birds are facing a nest with two cuckoos in it.
    It has a lots of numbers on the movement back plate but they don't seem to make any sense with what other people have written on this site.
    Any ideas on info or approximate value for this clock would be greatly appreciated.
    Many thanks
    Steve

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Greetings Steve~
      Email some photos and I will provide more information for you.

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  13. Hello, I purchased a cuckoo clock at an auction that needs a pendulum. The movement is a Regula 25 made in West Germany for E. Schmeckenbecher stamped G.M. 1884288, 1892176. It does not have a date code stamped on it or the drop length for the pendulum. Would the 19.5cm pendulum be the correct length or do I need a longer pendulum? What about the weight of the pendulum? Thank you in advance!

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    1. Provide photos of the front and back (with the back panel off) and I can provide additional information

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  14. Can I change my Regula 25 1 day movement to a Regula 34 8 day movement by just getting the heavier weights and pendulum (and Regula 34 movement as well)? Will it all fit/work in my existing clock mount? Is there anything else I need to do or is this just not a good idea? JDL

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    1. JDL~ Changing the weights and the pendulum will NOT make your 1 day movement an 8 day movement. The escapement and going train on an 8 day movement is engineered different than a 1 day movement. A Regula 34 8 day movement can often be exchanged for a 25 1 day movement with few problems. My shop does indeed complete work like this. If interested, please email me for additional details.



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  15. If the Regula name was not used until after WWII, then the clock would also be stamped, "Made in West Germany", at least until 1991. I have come across many Regula movements that are obviously older than 1940 and are marked Regula and "Made in Germany". Can you explain this if the Regula stamp was not used until after WWII? As an example, I am presently staring at a Cuckoo Clock stamped Regula. It is an early count wheel movement also stamped "Made in Germany," as well as Pat. 812538 and UNFX BAD DURRHEIM.

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  16. Please provide a photo of the front and back of the movement and we will attempt to address the dating issue.

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  17. i have a GM. 1884288/1892176 made by e. schmeckenbecher when was it made can you help out i am with the NAWCC. THANK YOU. Eric D.

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  18. Hi The Clock Man. I have a old cuckoo clock that the only information on the movement is "Div Pat u.G.M.angem." It is a hunters clock with the quail/squirrel/etc.,. I know that these markings has to do with the Patent Pending but when did they start this requirement? I know that at a certain date after WWII I believe it had to say "Made in Germany". Please contact me at markmunnerlyn@yahoo.com

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  20. I have a Regula one day cuckoo clock made by E. Schmeckenbecher, whose pendulum keeps stopping. Everything seems to be in order, but the only way to get the pendulum to keep operating is to add weight. Is this a normal problem? The current weights are 266 grams (9.4 ounces). If I buy heavier weights, should I buy one, or should I buy two, so they match?

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  21. I have acquired a cuckoo clock and know nothing about it and was wondering if you can give me some information like the date and manufacturer. The clock seems to be working properly and keeping time correctly. I have tried to put some pictures on this post but it won't let me.

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  22. I was hoping you might be able to help me date this beautiful clock I received for Christmas. It has Made in Germany on the back. Regular TM with Made in Germany and GM numbers on the back. No single letter. /Users/User/Desktop/DSC_2017.jpg /Users/User/Desktop/DSC_2016 (2).jpg /Users/User/Desktop/DSC_2016.jpg

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  23. DSC_2017.jpg DSC_2016 (2).jpg DSC_2016.jpg

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  24. I'm not sure if the photos are coming through. I may have to add them in a different format?

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  25. I have a clock n it doesn't have a single letter like the smaller one I have has a 25-c this one is a larger clock n has 25/1-d what would b the years on these?

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  26. IMG_1184.JPG Regula GM 1884288/1892176. Can you tell me this clocks age? On the inside of back door is pressed in wood 2-67. Is that the age?

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  27. regula 72 pl28.5 056
    synt.- oil clock 859

    made in west Germany can you tell me about the numbers ?

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  28. I have a cuckoo clock with a Regula A 25-82 movement and a 23.5cm length pendulum. The only problem is that I don't have the pendulum and need to test the clock for function. Could you give me an approximate weight for this pendulum? Also is the pendulum itself 9 1/4" or is it measured from the top of the hook attached to the movement?

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  29. Hey Clock Man,

    I just found this amazing post and I was wondering if you would be able to help me to find more information about my Regula coo coo clock. I would love to know more about it and it's value. I have attached pictures below. Thank you so much!!!

    Synt. – 011
    Clock 859

    G.M. 1884288
    1892176

    A25-85
    Made is West-Germany

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g4gkymno9ms8box/AABZFnuBC1BPMP_TLe5fbuvna?dl=0

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    1. You have a one day cuckoo made in 1985. Send me a photo or two and I can give you some additional information.

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  30. I have a beautiful large coo coo clock that has been in my German family for many years. It appears to be in great condition. On the back it says, 35 GM 1731483 1741584. Can you help with any other information about it?

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  33. Hello
    Just replaced the movement on a twin weight hunter series cuckoo clock,I got supplied online for £90 including postage Very educational fitting it bending all the wires ect I seem to sail through all the fitting except the dam bird ! poor thing has a headache now. Every thing works clock/striker/even the cuckoo sounds but I have hit probs ref the Dam bird pocking its head out, So i now have a birdless cuckoo clock .Best of my knowledge I cut & bent the rod to same angle as the old movement then centralised it to the archof the door opening ,then boom it hits the door top & is now in A&E at local hospital I would be greatful for any hints or tips before I do damage or even bury the Dam bird LOL ! my e mail is m.j.holt1@btinternet.com

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  34. GRAB YOU BY THE B...S!!!!
    Hi, I have just bought an old & decrepid hunter type cuckoo clock for restoration, now imagine my surprise when I discover the ONLY mark anywhere on the regula/lyre shaped movement is a single figure - 1 - nothing else that I can find anywhere! Does this make it a worthwhile project? half the carving is missing, every bit of steel is seriously rusty, 1 chain missing, both weights missing, pendulum missing...BUT it is possibly no.1? the vellum bellows need redoing also, the wing & beak movements are rusty & the door opener has rusted away along with the hinges & its got woodworm - now treated!!But it is all solid wood, no ply! If you are interested contact me at wanderingsnail@hotmail.co.uk
    look forward to hearing from you.

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    1. WOW, send me a couple photos and I will tell you more about your cuckoo and repairs. Anything is repairable, we need to see if it makes sense economically to complete the repairs.

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  35. Hi Dorrin, thanks for replying - I'm not good with computers & can't figure out how to attach photo's on here??? Do you have an email? or is there another way of doing this? regards Olly

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    1. Ok, I've found it - photos on their way shortly

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    2. The clock is nice, if you have a local person that you trust for repairs spend no more that 25pounds. The damage from damp and the woodwork gives the clock a "Patina" but hurts the value. In my shop we would sell your clock for $350.00 (provided all the pieces are there and I can tell the story you have provided :) )

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  36. I bought a Black Forest Hunter clock from someone and I think I pay too much for it. The seller restore clock and he told me that this clock in made in the 70's Below are some markings inside the clock. I also include links to some photos of the clock. Do you think you can tell me something about his clock and what it is worth? Any helps will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Chee

    25 - N
    G.M. 1884288 1892176
    NO (0) JEWELS unadjusted
    Synt-Oil Clock 859

    https://cheeclock.shutterfly.com/pictures/12#9
    https://cheeclock.shutterfly.com/pictures/12#10
    https://cheeclock.shutterfly.com/pictures/12#11
    https://cheeclock.shutterfly.com/pictures/12#12

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    1. Greeting Chee~ You have been misled. your clock dates from 2001 and has never been restored, in fact it needs a good cleaning and oiling now. The crown on the top is unusual and overall the clock is in good condition. I would have this clock for sale in my shop in Pennzylvania, USA for $800.00

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    2. Thank you very much for the note. I really appreciate it. I have bought a bottle of 100% synthetic clock oil and open the back and front face to oil it once after I took the photos. I afraid to do anything more to it since I am very new in collecting cuckoo clock. One thing that bugs me is that the gong is acting weird. It will gong once 5 minutes before it hit half hour and hour. And it will skip the first gong when the it reached half hour and hour. So the first cuckoo is always without the gong. The seller told me that it is the signatures of the clock. But it sound more like a defect to me. One of the chain is tougher to wine than the other one. Also one ear is missing on the deer on the top. Otherwise the cuckoo and the time run really good.

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    3. I do not know who you bought this clock from, but they are idiots do not deal with them again. The problem with your clock is the action wheel is out of adjustment. If you look at the first photo you sent me (#9) you will see a wheel with fingers sticking out located on the lower left of the movement. That wheel needs to have the screw loosened and turned clockwise about 5mm. That should take care of the problem.

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    4. OMG. That is a great tip. Thanks a bunch for your helps. I will not be able to figure that out.

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  37. I have an old cuckoo clock which I have had for many years and has been idle. I recently decided to try and get it working again. It has a one day movement and is stamped "G.G.Berger" made in Germany. I gave it a cleaning and oiling will replace the bellows. To my surprise the clock runs well and keeps accurate time. The only issue I have is that the bird and door only opens half way. How can I correct this?

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    1. There is a lever on the side of the movement that operates the bird exiting from the case when the cuckoo calls it needs adjusted. (bent in toward the movement)

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    2. THAMKS FOR THE HELP. I FIGURED THAT IE WHAT IT WAS BUT WAS RELUCTANT TO BEND ANYTHING FOR FEAR OF CAUSING SOME OTHER MALFUNCTION.

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    3. I HAD TO REPLACE THE ENTIRE BELLOWS AND WHISTLE BECAUSE SOMEONE HAD GLUED THEM SHUT AND COULD NOT BE REPAIRED. THE NEW BELLOWS AND WHISTLE WORK FINE EXCEOT THE CUCKOO CALL IS A BIT SLOW AND A BIT TO LONG. DOES IT NEED SOME WEIGHTS OR ARE THE BELLOWS WIRES TO LONG?
      P.S.
      I HAD TO REPLACE THE BELLOWS WIRES TOO SINCE THEY WERE MISSING.

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  38. Have a cuckoo clock left by my Aunt. Know nothing about them, chains do not budge. Should I try oiling somewhere? Two numbers on back GM 1731483 and 1741584, made in Germany 25. Any help much appreciated.thank you, Colleen Haskins mops2@verizon.net

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  39. Send me a photo of the clock movement and the chains to pineknoll@zoominternet.net and I will give you a best route for doing the job.

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  40. Is the Escape and Verge the same in the Regula 20 and the Regula 25? Can't find parts for the Regula 20 but many for the 25. These are damaged and need to be replaced. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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    1. Parts for a Regula 20 and 25 are not interchangeable. If you are unable to produce the parts yourself, your best bet is to purchase a donor movement. A quick check of Ebay today brought up 2 at a fair price in decent condition. I hope this helps you.

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  41. I have a German Cuckoo Clock made by Oliver Zinapold in 2003-4. It is an 8 day 2 song musical chalet style clock with 3 wooden carved, leaded weights. How should I look for a proper person to clean, oil, the clock. Also if I have the moss around the base replaced due to fading, does this devalue the clock?

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  42. The wife has a German Black Forest Musical Hofbrauhaus 1 day 2 weights however I believe it takes 3 weights. Where might I find another weight? Also does this clock require setting? I'm unfamiliar with these clocks, please help. Thank you.

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  43. I HAD TO REPLACE THE ENTIRE BELLOWS AND WHISTLE BECAUSE SOMEONE HAD GLUED THEM SHUT AND COULD NOT BE REPAIRED. THE NEW BELLOWS AND WHISTLE WORK FINE EXCEOT THE CUCKOO CALL IS A BIT SLOW AND A BIT TO LONG. DOES IT NEED SOME WEIGHTS OR ARE THE BELLOWS WIRES TO LONG?
    P.S.
    I HAD TO REPLACE THE BELLOWS WIRES TOO SINCE THEY WERE MISSING.

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  44. Hi there, I inherited a Black Forest Cuckoo clock. On back I found: Synt.-oil clock 859, 34-E, Regula, Made in Germany, No (0) Jewels, unadjusted and directly under that looks like numbers 056179, 1704075 1705294, it has hand painted flowers on it.
    Could you tell me age of this clock and value?
    Thank you.

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  45. I have been working on a Regula 34 movement and replaced both chain ratchet gears. My problem is the locking e-clips. I had to destroy them to get them off now I can't figure out how to get the new ones on.
    I need help.
    THANKS

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  46. Good morning Clock man..If you have time I have a couple questions about a Emil Schmeckenbecher Cuckoo Clock that I have recently acquired from family. The clock was purchased by my grandmother in the late 70's when she traveled with my grandfather during his military service. It was never displayed in her home. She was more of a collector so a lot of her collectables remained in the original box and never opened. I have tried to research this specific clock online with no luck. We would like to find out a little history on this piece and also its value. We may put it up for sale if it has any type of value but if it doesn't we may end up just keeping it. I will attach a few pictures below. Thanks for your time and any information you may have..

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  47. I cant find my clock online. I find similar ones..but mine has GM then two sets of numbers 1884288 then 1692176. It also says clock 859 from West Germany then the name A Shneider. Im trying to find out when it was made and its aprox value. I dont know how to post a picture on here.

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